End time events, church history, premillennialism, postmillennialism, amillinnialism, preterist, historist, futurist, second coming, pre tribulation rapture, and the book of Revelation






Article by Kenneth Uptegrove
Edited by Lora Uptegrove


End time events, church history, premillennialism, postmillennialism, amillinnialism, preterist, historist, futurist, second coming, pre tribulation rapture, and the book of Revelation    


I don't want to offend you, but do you know what a Futurist or Preterist  or Historicist is?  If you don't know, you are probably a Futurist, and you really need to know what a preterist and Historicist is.  Just trust me on this for a minute, and read this shocking statement:

Preterists and Historicists call us "Futurists" (Premillennialists) partly because we believe Jesus will return to Earth at the end of the great tribulation period and before the 1000 years of peace begins, but largely because we believe the Antichrist will come on the scene in the future.  However, Preterists believe the Antichrist and the Second Coming happened almost 2000 years ago (way back in 70 AD), and (again) we Premillennialists believe the antichrist (and the Second Coming) will come in the future. The Historicists also believe the Antichrist appeared in the past, but that the Second Coming will take place at the end of the 1,000 years (the Millennium).

Since the term "Futurist" is something Preterists and Historicists call Premillennialist, most Premillennialist never heard that term (Futurist) or the term "Preterist."  This may not sound important to you yet, but you will see in a minute that it really is important to you.  Please hang in there a little longer.

The subject here is eschatology, which is the study of end-time events, as illustrated by the book of Revelation.

The end-time events include the coming of the antichrist, the 7 year tribulation, the Second Coming, and Christ ruling during the 1000 years of peace...if you are a Premillennialist.  But if you are a Preterist or Historist you don't believe in any of these prophesied events.


The Main Schools of Eschatology Are:

Futurist/Premillennialists  .


Preterist/Amillennialists    .

(with many variations of each)


ArkHaven Ministries

Home Page



The Trojan Horse In Charismatic Movement


What Was the eschatology Behind the Lakeland Revival?




A Look at the present day seeking for supernatural encounters


Does God Speak To Us Today? (Cessationism)


Corrie ten Boom on Tribulation


Seeking For Supernatural Encounters



Pardon me if I'm wrong, but you probably don't have a clue as to what most…if not ALL of the above  "eschatological teaching" are. But, if I'm right, then I think you would appreciate a teaching that will inform and protect you from error you are unaware of, and lead you to Biblical truth.

Act 17:11  These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.
2Ti 4:1  I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
2Ti 4:2  Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
2Ti 4:3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
2Ti 4:4  and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 

This subject is rarely heard from the pulpits...but it will encourage you to take your Bible study very seriously.

For the first 55 years of my life the only end-time teaching I knew anything about was the pre-tribulation-rapture view. I was ignorant, docile, and naïve, and I think that is where most of us are today. It never occurred to me to ask if there were other teachings to consider (or shun) before deciding what to believe about end-time events. I am not criticizing the pre-tribulation-rapture view, I'm just saying that is the only one I knew, I didn't know there were any others...period.

Keep in mind that most eschatologies make the identical statement of faith, saying that they derive their eschatology straight from the Bible. All claim to stand squarely on the Word. All are supported by  brilliant  scholars who claim to love the Lord Jesus Christ equally as much, and are often found in our own denomination...and then they ride off into a dozen different directions. But God is not the author of confusion, and it is obvious that all of them can't be right, and time will test them all.

We Bible believing Christians believe a great falling away is coming, but the nature of this event is not quite clear in the minds of many believers.  It has never occurred to many of us that the falling away—properly defined—is erroneous teachings in our (yours, mine, every) doctrinal group.   This sounds like a wild accusation, but if you are a Berean seeker of wisdom and truth you will want to read this. (Acts 17:11)

According to the Ryrie study Bible, "There are four principal viewpoints concerning the interpretation of this book  (i.e., the book of Revelation) ",

(1) the preterist, which views the prophecies of the book as having been fulfilled in the early history of the Church;

(2) the historical, which understands the book as portraying a panorama of the history of the Church from the days of John to the end of time;

(3) the idealists, which consider the book a pictorial unfolding of great principles in constant conflict, without reference to actual events; and...

(4) the futurist, which views most of the book [chapters 4-22] as prophecy yet to be fulfilled..."

These four are the only schools of eschatology, but as if to further confuse the situation, there are several variations of each.

The idealist view has more to do with the book of Revelation than with the rest of Scripture. For that reason the idealist view gets absorbed, more-or-less, into the preterist and Historist view, and tends to lose its identity as an eschatology. At least, that is how I see it. One variation on the idealist view is the liberal, humanist, agnostic attitude, and is of no interest to Bible believers. Therefore the liberal view is disregarded in this discourse.

Why Such Division Over Eschatology

Too often the assumption is made that since the Bible is infallible, and since the doctrine of our faith comes straight from the Bible, that our doctrine and the Bible are equally infallible, and are (therefore) synonymous terms. Yet this same confession of faith results in many different doctrines.

If being Scriptural makes our doctrine infallible, then
how can we have dozens of different doctrines
 authenticated by the same test of doctrine?

We know the answer---the Bible is infallible, but we are not—but that gets overlooked! As the old saying goes, "The main barrier to truth is the assumption that we already have it."

We see through a glass darkly (1 Cor. 13:12). We are subject to sin and error, even when studying the Bible, and the hundreds of Bible believing denominations out there demonstrate that to be true. Picture an old-time wagon wheel for a moment.  Think of the eschatological teaching of any congregation as being the hub or axel of the wheel, and the spokes as being all the doctrines that emanate and revolve around that wheel.  If this be true, then if there is error in the eschatological teachings of a congregation, then all their other doctrines are going to be tainted because they all revolve around and emanate from the eschatological hub.

We all agree that even though we are called to be perfect, none of us have actually achieved perfection yet (Col. 3:14; Heb. 6:1; John 17:23). We all sin and are subject to error. Therefore, in all probability, we all are in error about something. But---being born again---we would immediately repent of our error...IF...we could be convinced that what we consider to be "a sacred doctrine from on high" is, in fact, a deception from the pit.

Since Satan does not have any truth to build even one true doctrine upon, he is free to have a thousand false doctrines, many of which are made up of a palatable mixture of God's truths and Satan's lies. This, of course, demonstrates how any eschatology can be both in error, and in truth--all at the same time!

Jesus declared (in Matthew 15:13 KJV) "...every plant, which my heavenly father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." I think that Jesus is telling us that every doctrine and every tradition that God did not introduce, He will eventually root up. Understanding this warning should compel us all to study ALL the eschatologies carefully. John the Revelator advised us to "look up and be ready."  As for me and my household, we will keep our eyes and ears on Jesus, not the professional eschatologists (who disagree with each other).


Many scholars make it a rule to never study any eschatology but the one they believe; and even if they do, they read only what scholars of their school of eschatology have written about other eschatologies. It turns out that most Bible scholars have not honestly and methodically studied any eschatology other than the one he/she was required to study while in seminary--no alternatives offered.

We all understand the power of peer pressure and the loyalty we all have to our family, alumni, and denomination. It can easily become more important to be warmly accepted than to be painfully right.


We are decidedly pre-millennial, but we do not find it wise to be more specific than that in light of the wisdom expounded upon in this article.  It is better to be knowledgeable of all the eschatologies but not committed to any of them so that we will be more open to the leading of the Holy Spirit and the events of history unfold. We all need to continue to press into the intimate relationship that Jesus requires of us in order to discern the times. Then being in tune with the Holy Spirit, we will have spiritual eyes to see, and spiritual ears to hear, what is REALLY coming down.

If you are the studious type you may want to read this history lesson on the origin of these eschatological teachings at  http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/antichrist.htm 

This is just speculation on our part, but it becomes clearer to us all the time that end-time events are not going to happen like any of the professional eschatologists think it will.  The fiction books have been written, the movies have been made, and multitudes believe these scenarios, these fiction accounts, these theories...God help us.   

Most importantly...we love the brethren and do not disregard the fellowship of those who are not of our particular persuasion concerning end-time events.  Since the Holy Spirit indwells all true born again Christians, how dare we place ourselves above the Holy Spirit by not receiving whom He indwells.

When pondering why there is so much diversity, confusion, error, and reproach among those called Christians, one may wonder why the Bible doesn't speak quite so clearly on this subject of eschatology.  We propose that God wants this to be a mystery so as to keep Satan from knowing with exactness, not us.  We have the Holy Spirit to show us when prophecy is being fulfilled, Satan doesn't.  But that also means that we need to know the Lord's voice so that we can hear Him telling us what He is doing.  So many Christians either do not know His voice, or are so sold out to a particular doctrine (of men) that they won't/can't listen to any other message from God or man (He who has ears to hear).

In our definition and discourse on many of the schools of eschatology, we are very critical of some mainline denominations, as well as the Charismatic movement, that are not pre-millennial.  Yet, we are ourselves Charismatic.  We are Not Cessationists. We believe that the Acts model, the Ephesians 4:11 ministries of the apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, and teacher, and the 1 Corinthians 12 gifts of the Holy Spirit have been in the church since the day of Pentecost. The Holy Spirit is now bringing the church into more maturity and preparing us for the time we find ourselves in...the days just prior to the Second Coming.

We believe the following doctrines are in serious error: the replacement theology, and preterism.  We feel that only pre-millennial views can be accurate, and all other views (post-millennial and a-millennial) are in serious error, and sometimes heretical.  

For a doctrine to be heretical it will be more than just not Biblical, but the heretic will also demand that you be in unity with them, not they with you.  They will come up with exclusion/elitist battle cries reminiscent of the Civil war between the Blues and the Grays.  They are the Blues and we are the Grays, and the Grays are the rebels and the losers.  Without correct doctrine one can not have correct worship or true unity.  The worship will be the "strange fire" Eli's two sons had when they did burnt offerings.

Most old line Protestant denominations came out of Catholicism and are still a lot more Catholic than they would like to think.  Even the most Evangelical and Charismatic churches have the rudiments of Catholicism in them, so it should not be surprising that a form of Catholic Preterism would be found in so many of them.  View this lecture by Dr. Ken Johnson to learn the ancient historical origins of these heretical, Gnostic doctrines: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcFwM4c_avM

When the premise of any philosophy or theology is wrong, that twists/distorts everything else they believe.  As I see it, the eschatology of all doctrinal groups is the wheel's hub that all their other doctrines must revolve around and be in agreement with.  We are now in the time (just prior to the great tribulation) when eschatology’s (and the doctrines that revolve around them) will stand or fail. 


Peter Wagner is a mild Preterist and advocate of Dominion theology



(Jesus returns before the 1,000 years)


(Jesus returns at the end of the 1,000 years)


(Jesus returned in 70 AD, there is no rapture)


Postmillennial Historist


Pre-Tribulation-Rapture   (pre-trib-rap)

Replacement Theology

The Tragedy of Amillennialism

Mid-Tribulation-Rapture   (mid-trib-rap)

Dominion Theology

Eye Opening Insight Into The Preterist View

Pre-Wrath-Rapture           (pre-wrath-rap)

Third Wave

Mild Preterism

Post-Tribulation-Rapture  (post-trib-rap)

Christian Reconstructionism

Moderate Preterism


Kingdom Now Theology

Partial Preterism

Chiliasm or Chiliad or millenarianism

Joel's Army

Joel's Army & Lou Engles

Extreme Preterism

Second Coming

Latter Rain Movement

Catholic Preterism

Replacement Theology

Manifest Sons of God

The Date Issue


Kingdom Now

Were Any of the Church Fathers Preterist?



C. Peter Wagner


Synopsis of the End Times: A look at the popular beliefs of today

by Mike Morrill

Mike Morrill was able to chat with many of the advocates of the various positions just to make sure he was stating their position accurately.  Mike tried to be neutral and fair to each view. Our thanks to Mike for this easy to understand study of all the schools of Eschatology.  Here is Mike's updated version as of Dec 2009.

CLICK HERE to read this PDF file


Futurist, premillennialism, pre mid post wrath tribulation rapture catching away


The Pre-Tribulation, Pre-Wrath, Mid-tribulation rapture, and Post-Tribulation coming of Christ doctrines all affirm that Jesus Christ is coming back bodily to rule and judge in the future. They can be lumped together as Premillennial views.

The core doctrine of Jesus Christ's second coming, as taught consistently in Scripture, is as follows: "Jesus Christ is coming again bodily to earth to rule and judge."

Premillennialism in Christian eschatology is the belief that Christ will literally reign on the earth for 1,000 years at his second coming. The doctrine is called premillennialism because it views the current age as prior to Christ’s kingdom. It is distinct from the other forms of Christian eschatology such as amillennialism or postmillennialism, which view the millennial rule as either figurative and non-temporal, or as occurring prior to the second coming. Premillennialism is largely based upon a literal interpretation of Revelation 20:1-6 in the New Testament which describes Christ’s coming to the earth and subsequent reign at the end of an apocalyptic period of tribulation. It views this future age as a time of fulfillment for the prophetic hope of God’s people as given in the Old Testament.

An Introduction to the Origins of the Premillennialist Eschatologies

One of my major teachings is that we need to go into history and study the origins of doctrines, and especially the ones we believe.  This has shaken some of my beliefs several times, and brought me to repentance.  Knowing Truth at any cost, not being right at any cost, is my goal...

Some words may not be familiar to you, like chiliast ... which is to be pronounced killiast, and means 1,000 or one who believes in a 1000 year millennium after the tribulation as shown in Revelations 19 and 20.  Another unfamiliar word may be Gnosticism which was prevalent in the first century, and several NT scriptures show how the Apostles dealt with this heresy, yet it is still prevalent today.  This is emphasized because the Postmillennialists do not believe in a literal 1,000 years, but by allegorical interpretation just means ... a long time.  The Amillennialists believe we are in the millennialm now, or more to the point, there is no millenniam.

Virtually every one of the Reformationists were Postmillenialists, or as they put it, Historicists.  In my understanding of history, the Reformers started a reformation and restoration process, but they didn't finish it because they did not restore a number of essential first century doctrines, one being the Premillennialist doctrine taught by all the first and second century church fathers

Thomas Ice is a pre-tribulation-rapture advocate, and there again ... history does serious damage to that view, but his below history lesson on the Premillinnium view is very well done ... in my opinion.  I hope you enjoy reading it.  And yes, I really can pronounce those names.  LOL

The obvious point to be seen here is ... for a doctrine to be credible, it must be seen in the literature of a majority of the first and second century church fathers (who were not Gnostic), and in the Bible.  The more recent any doctrine comes on the scene the more suspect it is.   Gnostic Christians (an oxymoron) have had more influence on church doctrine from the first century onward than any Baptist or Pentecostal seminarian would even dare to guess.  To put it another way, all Protestant and Evangelical doctrinal groups never completely left the Catholic church.  Gnostic thought permeates Christendom, yet most Christians never even heard that word before.


This book titled: THE CULTING OF CHRISTIANITY, by  James Lloyd, documents this point from ancient Gnostic manuscripts:

The Occult Roots Of The Rapture Cult - Part III

In the early days of my work in prophecy, I publicly pondered just why so many otherwise intelligent people continued in this belief, in spite of obvious evidence to the contrary. I ultimately came to recognize it was not simply a doctrinal disagreement, nor was it a lack of training, but something supernatural.

“…In the vanity of their mind, having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart” (Ephesians 4:17, 18).

I also noticed the various statements from ancient authors, commonly lifted out of context, and cited by Pre-Tribbers in an effort to show historically important figures knew about the Rapture doctrine, were themselves the target of the Spirit of the Age. Some commentators have noted that, particularly in the time when MacDonald, Irving, and Darby were first anticipating the idea, it seemed like the doctrine “was just in the air.”

Then the bombshell of Pseudo-Ephraem was dropped and, knowing the Pre-Tribulation Rapture doctrine had extremely suspicious Spiritual characteristics, I realized this was not simply an innocent error. It is now clear there has been a malevolent entity, Scripturally identified as the Spirit of Antichrist, subtly seeking to insinuate the key components of Pre-Trib from a time even before Jesus Christ was born. And Pseudo-Ephraem is the key to understanding it.

For the benefit of those who never received a formal education in theology, scholars long ago recognized the concept of forgery (and even hoaxes) did not originate in modern times, but have been with us from the very beginning. There exists a large body of ancient writings which have been identified as spurious. Whether motivated by monetary gain, a religious agenda, or even a pathological need to be recognized by their peers, people have been foisting forgeries on the world for thousands of years. In Old Testament times as well as the last two millennia, literally hundreds of documents have been circulated with the claim it is a lost letter of an Apostle, or an ancient account from a particularly revered individual. (Cont'd)


I copied these points from the net.  The major point being that virtually every church father in the first three centuries was a PRE millennialists.  Which shoots the Post and Amillennialist views down ... dead in the water.  Logically ... if a doctrine starts somewhere in history sometime AFTER the first three centuries, how credible can it be?  This completely shoots down a whole lot of so-called Christian religions that started in the 1800's, and a whole lot of them did.  Can you name a few of them?  Do you want me to?

I tried to stay brief on this complicated, controversial subject.  For your information, Roman Catholicism has always been Amillennial (i.e., Jesus came again in 70 AD and we are now in the non-millinnium).  All the reformers were Historicists (postmillennialist).  John Darby and his prize student, Scofield, restored the premillennialist (Futurist) eschatology, but it is at least questionable whether their per-trib-rapture concept is correct or not.




Tom's Perspectives
by Thomas Ice

I believe that premillennialism is so clearly taught in Revelation 19 and 20 that I still cannot understand how anyone can think otherwise without realizing deep down that they are going against the biblical text. A kingdom reign of the Messiah was just as clearly taught in the Old Testament. Jesus and His Scripture writing disciples also support the notion of an earthly kingdom headed by the Messiah. Such clearness in the Bible provides the likely reason why the early church fathers who spoke on this matter were all premillennialists.


The first premillennialists were those who received God's revelation and wrote it down in the Bible. Eusebius tells us that one of the earliest church fathers that had heard the Apostle John and others who had known the Lord and His Apostles was Papias (A.D. 60–130) the bishop of Hierapolis in Phrygia, Asia Minor. Papias taught "that there will be a millennium after the resurrection of the dead, when the kingdom of Christ will be set up in material form on this earth."1 Irenaeus (A.D. 130–202) tells us that Papias "related that they had heard from him how the Lord used to teach in regard to these times" (the millennium) in book 4 of Papias' writings, which are no longer extant, except a few fragments. Papias is recorded as saying: "there will be a millennium after the resurrection from the dead, when the personal reign of Christ will be established on this earth."2 Polycarp (A.D. 70–155), bishop of Smyrna, is also said to have been a premillennialist.3 The Epistle of Barnabas (written between A.D. 120–150) presents the common belief that "in six thousand years, all things will be finished. . . . then shall He truly rest on the seventh day." The writer speaks of the second coming of Christ with the clear implication that He will set up the thousand year kingdom on earth, followed by the eight day or the eternal state.4

Justin Martyr (A.D. 100–165) in his Dialogue With Trypho (@ A.D. 140), a Jewish man, made the following premillennial statement:

But I and others, who are right-minded Christians on all points, are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built, adorned, and enlarged, as the prophets Ezekiel and Isaiah and others declare.5

Justin considered premillennialism an aspect of orthodoxy in his day. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place.6



Two of the greatest ante-Nicene fathers were Irenaeus and Tertullian (A.D. 160–230).

Irenaeus grew up in Asia Minor and was discipled by Polycarp, who knew the Apostle John. Irenaeus had a very extensive view of Bible prophecy in his last five chapters of Against Heresies, which were suppressed throughout the Middle Ages by antipremillennialists and rediscovered in 1571.7 The restoration of a more literal interpretation and reading of the early church fathers by many post-Reformationists led to a revival of premillennialism in the early 1600s.8 Irenaeus' writings played a key role because of their clear premillennial statements. "John, therefore, did distinctly foresee the first `resurrection of the just,' and the inheritance in the kingdom of the earth," he says, "and what the prophets have prophesied concerning it harmonize [with his vision]."9

Again, Irenaeus declares:

But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom.10

Tertullian, who gave us the Latin word "Trinity," was also a strong premillennialist. He makes his premillennialism clear when he said the following:

But we do confess that a kingdom is promised to us upon the earth, although before heaven, only in another state of existence; inasmuch as it will be after the resurrection for a thousand years in the divinely-built city of Jerusalem, "let down from heaven," which the apostle also calls "our mother from above;" and, while declaring that our citizenship is in heaven, he predicts of it that it is really a city in heaven. This both Ezekiel had knowledge of and the Apostle John beheld.11



Another outstanding premillennialist of the early church was Lactntius (A.D. 250– 330) of North Africa. He wrote an important defense of Christianity that was the first systematic expression of Christianity called The Divine Institutes, which included a section on prophecy. Lactntius said:

But when the thousand years shall be completed, the world shall be renewed by God, and the heavens shall be folded together, and the earth shall be changed, and God shall transform men into the similitude of angels, and they shall be white as snow; and they shall always be employed in the sight of the Almighty, and shall make offerings to their Lord, and serve Him for ever.12

Virtually everyone who wrote on this topic for the first two to three hundred years of the church's history were premillennialists. The list would include individuals like Clement of Rome, who wrote a letter to an early church around A.D. 95;13 Ignatius of Antioch, who is said to have been a disciple of the Apostles John and Peter. Early church tradition tells us that he was thrown to the lions in A.D. 107.14 Theophilus of Antioch (A.D. 115–181), who wrote one of the first accounts of primitive church history.15 Tatian of Assyria, who died in A.D. 167; Melito, Bishop of Sardis, who died in A.D. 170; Clemens Alexandrinus, who was a contemporary of Justin Martyr; Hippolytus, a disciple of Irenaeus, was martyred in A.D. 230 for his faith. Victorinus, Bishop of Pettau who died in A.D. 303; Methodius, Bishop of Tyre died in A.D. 311; an Egyptian bishop named Nepos of the third century; Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage was martyred in A.D. 258; and Commodians, a Christian historian, who wrote about A.D. 250.16 Others could be added to the list.


It is generally recognized within the scholarly world of early church historians that premillennialism was the most widely held view of the earliest church tradition. One of the leading experts on the doctrine of the early church is J. N. D. Kelly, who says, "millenarianism, or the theory that the returned Christ would reign on earth for a thousand years, came to find increasing support among Christian teachers. . . . This millenarian, or 'chiliastic', doctrine was widely popular at this time."17 "The great theologians who followed the Apologists, Irenaeus, Tertullian and Hippolytus, were primarily concerned to defend the traditional eschatological scheme against Gnosticism," explains Kelly. "They are all exponents of millenarianism."18

Philip Schaff, the dean of American church historians and himself a postmillennialist, provided the following summary of the early church's view of the millennium:

The most striking point in the eschatology of the ante-Nicene age is the prominent chiliasm, or millenarianism, that is the belief of a visible reign of Christ in glory on earth with the risen saints for a thousand years, before the general resurrection and judgment. It was indeed not the doctrine of the church embodied in any creed or form of devotion, but a widely current opinion of distinguished teachers, such as Barnabas, Papias, Justin Martyr, Irenaeus, Tertullian, Methodius, and Lactantius.19

European scholar and church historian, Adolph Harnack echoes Schaff and tells us, "First in point of time came the faith in the nearness of Christ's second advent and the establishing of His reign of glory on the earth. Indeed it appears so early that it might be questioned whether it ought not to be regarded as an essential part of the Christian religion."20

The Bible is the sole basis from which a Believer in Christ should learn what is true. What others have believed down through church history is really not the issue. However, when we believe the Bible teaches a particular doctrine, it is not surprising that others who have read the Bible see the same thing. This is exactly what we find in the early church in regards to premillennialism before allegorical interpretation began to dominate. Maranatha!


1 Papias as quoted in Eusebius Ecclesiastical History, II vols, (Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press,

1926), Vol. I, p. 297.

2 Papias, Fragments, chapter 6.

3 Irenaeus, Against Heresies, book 5, chapter 33, paragraphs 3–4.

4 The Epistle of Barnabas, chapter 15.

5 Justin Martyr, Dialogue With Trypho, chapter 80.

6 Justin Martyr, Dialogue With Trypho, chapter 81.

7 Wilber B. Wallis, "Reflections on the History of Premillennial Thought," in R. Laird Harris, Swee-Hwa

Quek, & J. Robert Vannoy, editors, Interpretation & History: Essays in honour of Allen A. MacRae (Singapore:

Christian Life Publishers, 1986), p. 228.

8 Jeffrey K. Jue, Heaven Upon Earth: Joseph Mede (1586–1638) and the Legacy of Millenarianism (Dordrecht,

Holland: Springer, 2006), pp. 110–13.

9 Irenaeus, Against Heresies, book 5, chapter 36, paragraph 3.

10 Irenaeus, Against Heresies, book 5, chapter 30, paragraph 4.

11 Tertullian, Against Marcion, book 3, chapter 25.

12 Lactntius, The Divine Institutes, book 7, chapter 26.

13 Jesse Forest Silver, The Lord's Return (New York: Fleming H. Revell, 1914), pp. 58–59.

14 Silver, The Lord's Return, p. 60.

15 Silver, The Lord's Return, p. 62.

16 Silver, The Lord's Return, pp. 66–68.

17 J. N. D. Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines (San Francisco: Harper & Row, 1978), p. 465.

18 Kelly, Early Christian Doctrines, pp. 467 & 469.

19 Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, VIII vols. (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans Publishing Company, 1973), vol. II, p. 614.

20 Adolph Harnack, "Millennium," The Encyclopaedia Britannica, 9th edition (New York: Charles Scibner's Sons, 1883), vol. XVI, p. 314 cited in Renald E. Showers, There Really Is A Difference! (Bellmawr, NJ: The Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry, 1990), p. 117.

Historically Christian premillennialism has also been referred to as "chiliasm" or "millenarianism". The "Chiliad" ("ch" is pronounced as "k") is another term we are not familiar with, but it is the Greek word for 1,000. The theological term "premillennialism" did not come into general use until the mid-nineteenth century, the modern period in which premillennialism was revived.  [Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premillennialism]

The Preterists call Premillennialists "Futurists" because Preterists believe the Antichrist (and the Second Coming) came in the distant past (in 70 AD), and the Premillennialists believe the antichrist (and the Second Coming) will come in the future.  Since the term "Futurist" is something Preterists call Premillennialist, most Premillennialist never heard that term (Futurist) or the term "Preterist."  But it is high time they did. 


pre tribulation rapture raptured seventieth week of Daniel

Pre-Tribulational Rapture: The pre-trib view holds that the church will be "raptured" before the entire seventieth week of Daniel. This is a prevalent view in countries that have never experienced widespread persecution, such as the United States. Jesus then comes back bodily at the end of the seventieth week of Daniel to rule and judge.


mid tribulation rapture the church will escape the last half of the seventieth week of Daniel

Mid-Tribulational Rapture: The church will escape the last half of the seventieth week, also known as the Great Tribulation. Jesus then comes back bodily at the end of the Tribulation to rule and judge.


pre wrath rapture, the rapture is distinct from the Second Coming and the rapture will take place between the sixth and seventh seals

Pre-Wrath Rapture: The basic aspects of the pre-wrath view are that the "rapture" is distinct from the "second coming" and the "rapture" will take place between the sixth and seventh seals. Jesus then comes back bodily at the end of the seventieth week of Daniel to pour out His wrath on His enemies and then rule and judge.


Post tribulation rapture, rapture and second coming are at the same time

Post-Tribulational Second Coming: In most versions of post-tribulationism, the "rapture" and the "second coming" are at the same time (a single event). Post-Trib people do not consider themselves to be Pre-Wrath. Jesus Christ comes back for His elect, they meet Him in the air and He comes bodily to earth immediately to rule and reign.


The second coming of Christ is a cornerstone of Biblical doctrine

The second coming of Christ is a cornerstone of Biblical doctrine.  Our Lord promised it, the apostles confirmed it, and the entire book of Revelation celebrates it. Below are just a few examples of the verses that establish this fact.

John 14:1-3 "Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God; trust also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am."

Matthew 26:64 "Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Luke 21:27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

The return of Christ will be visible. He will not come in secret; He will not come "mystically," or only to those with eyes to see Him. All humanity will witness His coming, and those who do not belong to Him will be terrified.

Acts 1:11 "Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."

Matthew 24:29-30 "Immediately after the distress of those days "`the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.' "At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn.

Rev 1:7 Look, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him; and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. So shall it be! Amen.

The Second Coming of Christ will be Bodily. He will not come "spiritually," He will not return "in His Body" the Church. He has a body now, a glorious body, witnessed by the apostle John (Rev 1:12-16), and when He comes in clouds of glory, it will be in that glorious body.

Philippians 3:21 who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.

Zechariah 14:3 Then the LORD will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights in the day of battle. On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.

He will come in Power and Glory--unlike His first coming, His true nature will not be concealed. He will come at the head of a heavenly army, as the conquering Sovereign that He is.

Titus 2:13 while we wait for the blessed hope-- the glorious appearing of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ,

Matthew 24:30 They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory.

Christ is Returning!


Pre-millennial Historicism--The Classic Form of "Historic-Premillennialism"

Pre-millennial Historicism--The Classic Form of "Historic-Premillennialism"

Sir Isaac Newton, Charles Spurgeon, Francis Schaeffer, George Eldon Ladd, and many of Christianity's greatest theologians held the pre-millennial Historist position.

Historic premillennialism: Like dispensational-pre-millennialism, historic-pre-millennialists holds to the premillennial return of Christ. Jesus will reign on Earth over all nations after the tribulation, anti-Christ, etc. Many historic-pre-millennialists hold to a “post-tribulational rapture,” unlike most dispensational-pre-millennialists who believe in the “pre-trib-rapture.” This refers to the timing in relation to the "tribulation” of God taking His chosen out of the world. Unlike dispensational-pre-millennialism, historic-pre-millennialism does not see a prominent place for physical Israel but holds to what  dispensational-pre-millennialism call "replacement” theology"—the idea that Gentiles are grafted into the covenant as partakers of God’s promises and blessings to Israel in the Old Testament. Similar to dispensational-pre-millennialism, historic-pre-millennialism is pessimistic about the present era that will culminate in increased depravity, the rise of the antichrist, and the tribulation—only to be later followed by the glorious millennium.


Replacement Theology essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan.  George Bush beleives this

Replacement Theology essentially teaches that the church has replaced Israel in God’s plan. Adherents of Replacement Theology believe the Jews are no longer God’s chosen people, and God does not have specific future plans for the nation of Israel. All the different views of the relationship between the church and Israel can be divided into two camps: either the Church is a continuation of Israel (Replacement Theology / Covenant Theology), or the Church is completely different and distinct from Israel (Dispensationalism / Premillennialism).

Replacement Theology teaches that the Church is the replacement for Israel and that the many promises made to Israel in the Bible are fulfilled in the Christian Church, not in Israel. So, the prophecies in Scripture concerning the blessing and restoration of Israel to the Promised Land are "spiritualized" or “allegorized” into promises of God's blessing for the Church. Major problems exist with this view, such as the continuing existence of the Jewish people throughout the centuries and especially with the revival of the modern state of Israel. If Israel has been condemned by God, and there is no future for the Jewish nation, how do we explain the supernatural survival of the Jewish people over the past 2000 years despite the many attempts to destroy them? How do we explain why and how Israel reappeared as a nation in the 20th century after not existing for 1900 years?

The view that Israel and the Church are different is clearly taught in the New Testament. In this view, the Church is completely different and distinct from Israel, and the two are never to be confused or used interchangeably. We are taught from Scripture that the Church is an entirely new creation, that came into being on the Day of Pentecost, and will continue until it is translated to heaven at the Rapture (Ephesians 1:9-11; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17). The Church has no relationship to the curses and blessings for Israel. The covenants, promises, and warnings are valid only for Israel. Israel has been temporarily set aside in God's program during these past 2,000 years of dispersion.

President Bush and his entire cabinet are in Replacement Theology denominations.  Is it any wonder they push the land for peace policy in Israel?  To give away land God has given is to bring the judgment of  Isaiah 55 upon us.  In Genesis 12 God placed this blessing over the land that was to become Israel:

1 Now the LORD said to Abram, "Go forth from your country, And from your relatives And from your father's house, To the land which I will show you; 2 And I  will make you a great nation, And I  will bless you, And make your name great; And so you   shall be a blessing; 3 And I  will bless those who bless you, And the one who curses  you I will curse.  And  in you all the families of the earth will be blessed."


The great tragedy for the church has been amillennialism, an attempt to explain away the idea that Jesus will literally come back to rule


Preter: a prefix, meaning “beyond,” “more than,” “by,” “past,” occurring originally in loanwords from Latin (preterit), and used in the formation of compound words (preterlegal).


 Excerpts from Pg 256 in  Learn The Bible in 24 Hours  by Chuck Missler

The great tragedy for the church has been amillennialism, an attempt to explain away the idea that Jesus will literally come back to rule. This started with Origen (185-254 AD), an early church man whose hermeneutics encouraged the allegorization of Scripture. Augustine (354-430 AD) relied on this allegorical method to formulate an amillennial eschatology, which claimed that the thousand-year rule revealed in the book of Revelation was merely figurative. Subsequently this view was adopted by the Roman Catholic Church and remains their eschatologic view to this day. Tragically, although the reformers did a diligent job shedding the shackles of tradition by returning to the authority of the Bible, especially with regards to salvation, they didn't adequately reexamine the eschatological doctrines of the Church Most Protestant denominations today, therefore, remain amillennial in their interpret of end-time prophecy.

Several tragic ideas or logical assumptions are derived from amillennialism.

First, all of the Messianic promises throughout the Old Testament are at risk, promises that point to the dynasty of David ruling the earth through Jesus Christ, the Messiah.

Second, amillenialism allowed the early church to become extremely anti-Semitic. Jews have suffered through nineteen hundred years of persecution, much under the banner of Christ, because of these views.

Third, it caused the Church to lose its moorings, its roots. We serve a Jewish King. We serve a church founded by Jewish leaders. And we venerate a Jewish Scripture. God through with Israel, yet the destiny of Israel is denigrated by amillennialism.

Fourth, the promise given to Mary by the angel Gabriel is rendered indeterminate. She was specifically told that her child would rule on the throne of David. The throne of David did not exist during those days. It has yet to be reestablished.

The fundamental issue is really hermeneutics. How do you go about interpreting the scriptural text? To the extent that you take it literally, you will be driven to a premillennial point of view. To the extent you are willing to treat the text symbolically or allegorically you will drift toward the amillennial perspective, rationalizing these promises in figurative terms.

It is the discovery that God says what He means, and means what He says, that raises the fog of diffidence and energizes the most exciting adventure of anyone's lifetime!

Preterists say that everything in Revelation has already taken place and is all past history. Reconstructionists claim the Church has replaced Israel and has inherited the promises that I were given to her. Neither of these are Scriptural doctrines.


MILD preterism teaches that the Book of Revelation was fulfilled during the first three centuries as God waged war on the two early enemies of the church: Israel and Rome

There are at least four kinds of preterism. For lack of better terms we will call them mild, moderate, partial, and extreme.

·                    MILD preterism teaches that the Book of Revelation was fulfilled during the first three centuries as God waged war on the two early enemies of the church: Israel and Rome. The first half of Revelation teaches that Israel was defeated in A.D. 70, while the last half of Revelation is about God's conquest of Rome in the fourth century when Constantine declared the Roman Empire Christian. Thus, this earliest form of preterism teaches that Revelation was fulfilled in the first 300 years of the church's history.


MODERATE preterists believe that almost all prophecy was fulfilled in the A.D. 70 destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans

·                    MODERATE preterists believe that almost all prophecy was fulfilled in the A.D. 70 destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. They do believe that a few passages still teach a yet future second coming (Acts 1:9-11; 1 Corinthians 15:51-53; 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17) and the resurrection of believers at Christ's bodily return.


Partial Preterism says the biblical prophecies concerning the "last days" or the "end times" were literally fulfilled at the time of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. The end times marked the ending of the old covenant and the beginning of the new covenant. Jesus literally will return to the earth in the future (see Matthew 24:36-25:46), but none of the signs of Matthew 24:4-34 are expected to precede His return, because they have already occurred

·                    PARTIAL preterism is a form of Christian eschatology that holds much in common with but is distinct from Full preterism (or 'consistent' or 'hyper' preterism) in that it places the events of most of the Book of Revelation as occurring during the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD (and/or the Fall of Rome several centuries later) yet still affirms an orthodox future bodily return of Christ to earth at an unknown day and hour. Partial preterism sees Matthew 24, Matthew 25:31-46, the Book of Daniel and most of the Book of Revelation (besides its last 2 or 3 chapters) as speaking about events no later than the first century AD, and about a coming of Christ in judgment, not the (second, final and bodily) coming of Christ and Last judgement.

Most Partial Preterists also believe the term Last Days refers not to the last days of planet Earth or the last days of humankind, but rather to the last days of the Mosaic Covenant which God had exclusively with national Israel until the year AD 70, see also Supersessionism. As God came in judgment upon various nations in the Old Testament, Christ also came in judgment against those in Israel who rejected him. The "last days," however, are to be distinguished from the "last day," which is considered still future and entails the Second Coming of Jesus, the Resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous dead physically from the grave in like-manner to Jesus' physical resurrection, the Final Judgment, and the creation of a literal (rather than covenantal) New Heavens and a New Earth free from the curse of sin and death which was brought about by the fall of Adam and Eve, also called the Kingdom of God. Thus partial preterists are in agreement and conformity with the historic eucemenical creeds of the Church and articulate the doctrine of the resurrection held by the early Church Fathers. Partial preterists hold that the New Testament predicts and depicts many "comings" of Christ and that the phrase Second Coming means second of like kind in a series for the Scriptures record other comings even before the judgment-coming in AD70, thus eliminating that event as the "second" of any series, let alone the second of the series in which the example if the earthly, physical ministry of Christ. Partial Preterists believe that the new creation comes in redemptive progression as Christ reigns from His heavenly throne, subjugating His enemies, and will eventually culminate in the destruction of physical death, the "last enemy" (1 Cor 15:20-24). If there are any enemies remaining, the resurrection event cannot have occurred.

Partial preterism is consistent with Covenant theology in that its basis lies in the outworking of the covenant judgments of Deuteronomy 28 - 32 and Leviticus 26 and as such opposes Dispensational Premillennialism and Futurism popular in evangelical circles today with such works as the Left Behind series. Preterism also is distinct from Dispensational eschatology in that it does not have specific modern political directives attached (see Dispensationalism's connection to Christian Zionism).

Nearly all Partial Preterists hold to amillennialism or postmillennialism. Many postmillennial Partial Preterists are also theonomic in their outlook.

A variant form of Partial Preterism developed within Catholic tradition that identified the woman in Revelation 12 as Mary rather than being symbolic of Israel and/or the Church in Protestant forms of Partial Preterism.

Partial Preterism relies heavily on the account of Flavius Josephus in describing the destruction of Jerusalem as a first hand account of the recorded fulfillment of the Book of Revelation.

Because of the widespread acceptance of Dispensational Futurism amongst American evangelicals, Partial Preterism is often considered unorthodox by many. Partial Preterism is also criticised for claiming that the Book of Revelation was written before the destruction of Jerusalem sometime during the reign of Roman emperor Nero in the 60s AD rather than in 95 AD which is the widely held belief among Dispensationalists. Kenneth Gentry, a prominent Partial Preterist, wrote his PhD thesis Before Jerusalem Fell (which has since been made into a book) on a defense of placing the writing of the Book of Revelation during Nero's reign.


EXTREME preterists, or consistent preterists, as they prefer to be known, hold that all future Bible prophecy was fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70

·                     EXTREME preterists, or consistent preterists, as they prefer to be known, hold that all future Bible prophecy was fulfilled in the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70. If there is a future second coming, they say, the Bible does not talk about it. Extreme preterists believe that there is no future bodily resurrection, which place them outside the realm of Christian orthodoxy.


Partial Preterism which was developed within Catholic tradition that identified the woman in Revelation 12 as Mary rather than being symbolic of Israel and/or the Church in Protestant forms of Partial Preterism


Catholic Preterism


A variant form is called Partial Preterism which was developed within Catholic tradition that identified the woman in Revelation 12 as Mary rather than being symbolic of Israel and/or the Church in Protestant forms of Partial Preterism.


Most old line Protestant denominations came out Catholicism and are still a lot more Catholic than they would like to think.  Even the most Evangelical and Charismatic churches have the rudiments of Catholicism in them, so it should not be surprising that a mild form of Preterism would be found in some of them.

There are other assorted views, but we are trying to be brief here.


An Eye Opening Insight Into The Preterist heresy, by John Noe

An Eye Opening Insight Into The Preterist View

 Here are excerpts from a pamphlet by John Noe entitled: “What is the Preterist View?”

"Scores of preterist books, tracts, video and audio tapes have been produced and many more are on the way. It's beginning to capture significant public attention and is 'spreading like wildfire' at the grass roots level."

The final events of the redemptive drama came to pass in the first century within the apostles' generation( before A.D. 70). Christ's kingdom is here now. Paradise has been restored in Christ (spiritually speaking). We live in the Garden of Eden now (if we are in Christ)... "

"The biblical last days are behind us, not ahead of us. They are in the past, not in the future. Every New Testament reference to the last days or equivalent 'last times, last hour', refers to the time its writers were living in the first century. They weren't the last days of planet Earth, or the end of time. They were the last days of the Old Covenant Jewish system and age. There are no exceptions. "

Do you understand what he's saying?

Mr. DeMar attempts to defend his view in the following manner:

"But how can we maintain that Jesus 'came' in A.D. 70? Jesus 'coming' in judgment upon Jerusalem and His coming 'up to the Ancient of Days' (Daniel 7:13; Matthew 24:30) were two events that occurred within the time span of the first generation of Christians. There is no future fulfillment of these events. "11

David Chilton was one of the leading scholars of this movement. He was their leading theologian up until his death. In his book, "Paradise Restored," he summarizes the forty-five major arguments in his book. I'm only going to list a few of these. I'm not trying to shock you. I am trying to paint a picture for you with authenticity, verification and facts. Here are just a few of the forty-five major arguments that he makes in this book.

8.    "The wicked are 'raptured' first (i.e., driven out of the earth and disinherited), as the righteous increasingly come into possession of all things."

11.   "Daniel's prophecy of the Son of Man 'coming in the clouds' was fulfilled in the Ascension of Christ."

(Notice, they've got it backwards! They make Christ's ascension, his return!)

14.   "Ethnic Israel was excommunicated for its apostasy and will never again be God's Kingdom."

(Friend, that is replacement theology, pure and simple.)

17.   "The Olivet Discourse is not about the Second Coming of Christ. It is a prophecy of the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70." See they all go back to A.D. 70."

18.   "The Great Tribulation took place in the fall of Israel. It will not be repeated and thus is not a future event."

20. "Although Israel will someday be restored to the true faith, the Bible does not tell of any future plan for Israel as a special nation."

23.   "The 'Great Apostasy' happened in the first century.  We therefore have no Biblical warrant to expect increasing apostasy as history progresses; instead, we should expect the increasing Christianization of the world."

24.   "The Last Days is a Biblical expression for the period between Christ's Advent and the destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70; the 'last days' of Israel."

36.   "The 'Millennium' is the Kingdom of Jesus Christ, which He established at His First Advent."

(David Chilton just said the millennium began when Christ came two thousand years ago!)

38. "The 'thousand years' of Revelation 20 is symbolic for a vast number of years, most likely many thousands."

42.   "The center for the Christian reconstruction of the world is the Church."

(This is a Reconstructionist teaching).

This book entitled, "The Last Days According to Jesus," with the sub-title, "When Did Jesus Say He Would Return?" Sproul writes,

"Josephus's record of Jerusalem's fall indicates the radical fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy in the Olivet Discourse. As we have seen, preterists see in this event not only the destruction of the temple and its attending circumstances, but also the parousia of Christ his judgment-coming "13

Abanes is about to show his true "doctrinal colors."

He continues, "One question, however, must be answered: If Jesus was telling the Jews present with him in the first century that they were the generation who would see 'the end,' then is he guilty of making a false prophecy? No. The 'end' about which he spoke may have been the end of Israel and Jerusalem in 70 A.D, not the end of the world. All of the 'signs' enumerated by Jesus took place in the first century just before the destruction of Jerusalem under the Roman Empire Titus. "20

Why does he say we're wrong?   Because everybody that preceded us for two thousand years was wrong. However, that is faulty logic. That is like somebody saying in 1945, "You know, preachers have said for nineteen hundred and forty-five years that Israel would be reborn and they've all been wrong. So all these guys today are wrong. "

But guess what happened in 1948? Israel was reborn, thus setting this generation apart from all generations that preceded it.

In fact, the very nation of Israel itself is a real problem to the preterist scoffers. The preterists have no plausible explanation for this great miracle of history. The scoffers want us to believe that the re-establishing of the nation of Israel in our lifetime is merely a fluke, an accident of history. Yet today, for the first time since 586 BC, the Jewish people are living in their Biblical land under a sovereign government.

It should be overwhelmingly self-evident that Israel itself is Gods "super sign" that we are in fact living in the last days, and stands as a strong witness against the message of the modern scoffers of today.


There is a total absence of any historical references from the first three centuries following Christ to support the writing of Revelation prior to 70 A.D.


The Preterists contend that all New Testament prophecies about the last days all occurred back at 70 A.D., including almost the entire book of Revelation! Nice theory, only one major problem....

If John wrote the Book of Revelation AFTER the Temple's destruction in 70 A.D., it would essentially destroy their entire premise. And every single Preterist teacher knows this fact.

The preterist defender, Kenneth L. Gentry, in his enthusiastic review of David Chilton's dominion theology book,  “DAYS OF VENGEANCE", wrote, "If it could be demonstrated that Revelation was written 25 years after the fall of Jerusalem, Chilton 's entire labor would go up in smoke. "

Does anyone know for sure "when" John the Revelator penned the Book of Revelation? The vast majority of scholars and church historians contend the time to be between 90-96 A.D.—some 25 years AFTER the destruction of Jerusalem!

Thomas Ice quotes Greek scholar and historian Kurt Aland in reference to the actual date when the Book of Revelation was written by the Apostle John.

"Aland says that revelation was 'written about the year 96'. If this is true, it renders the preterist's interpretation impossible, for Revelation is a prophecy about a future event. "

"The majority of scholars today think it unlikely that Revelation was written before A.D. 70. Instead, they favor the A.D. 95-96 date. "34

There is a total absence of any historical references from the first three centuries following Christ to support the writing of Revelation prior to 70 A.D.

The preterist view is simply not true!


No church fathers, no one beleived in or mentioned in any way the preterist view


If the Preterists are right and Jesus returned to earth back in the first century as they contend, then surely we can find somebody, somewhere, back there in the first second and third century who believed and taught this fact. Right? We cannot find even one!

THE COMING RESURRECTION.  Some preterists are partial preterists and some are full preterists. I believe "full" preterists are guilty of true heresy. True heresy is when you doctrinally deny one or more of the essentials of the faith. If you deny an essential, you preach heresy. We can differ on "non-essentials" all day; and still be brothers. But when you deny an essential you've got a problem. True heresy is when you deny the essentials. One of the "essentials" is the doctrine concerning the coming Resurrection.

 Now tell us, Paul, how have they erred? Keep reading. "Saying that the resurrection is past already..." In Paul's day there were some heretics who had erred from the truth, trying to get gullible, naive Christians to believe that the resurrection already occurred. My friend, that is exactly and precisely what the scoffers are doing today. The extreme preterists believe that there is no future bodily resurrection, which places them outside the realm of Christian Orthodoxy.

Gary DeMar in an appendix within his book reprints David Chilton's bold declarations,

"The 'new heavens and earth' promised to the Church comprise the age of the New Covenant—the Gospel's triumph, when all mankind will come to bow down before the Lord. John Bray writes: 'This passage is a grand description of the gospel age after Christ came in judgment in 70 A.D. and took away the old heavens and the old earth.  We now had the new heavens and the new earth of the gospel age. "

Notice yet another quote from the preterist John Noe, "Because Peter said the elements were going to melt with fervent heat... So what are these 'elements?' The 'elements' Peter is speaking of are the 'elementary principles' or 'rudiments' of Judaism, that Old Covenant 'world' or system, which would soon be destroyed in the coming of 'the day of the Lord' in A.D. 70.  What was the fire? This divine 'fire' destroyed the Temple, the city, the sacrifices, the priesthood, the genealogies, the tribes, and the whole heart, soul and physical components of the Jewish religious system and theocracy—forever. Truly, Peter's 'world' that was soon to perish was the world of biblical Judaism; Old Covenant Israel."


Postmillennialism is an interpretation of chapter 20 of the biblical book of Revelation which sees Christ's second coming as occurring after the "Millennium"


Postmillennialism is an interpretation of chapter 20 of the biblical book of Revelation which sees Christ's second coming as occurring after (Latin post-) the "Millennium", a Golden Age or era of Christian prosperity and dominance. The term subsumes several similar views of the end times, and it stands in contrast to premillennialism (the view that Christ’s second coming will occur prior to his Millennial Kingdom, and that the Millennial Kingdom is a literal 1,000-year reign) and, to a lesser extent, amillennialism (no literal millennium).

Postmillennialism refers to a belief that Christ returns after a period of time, but not necessarily 1,000 years. Those who hold this view do not interpret unfulfilled prophecy using a normal, literal method. They believe that Revelation 20:4-6 should not be taken literally. They believe that 1,000 years simply means a long period of time. Furthermore, the prefix "post" in postmillennialism denotes the view that Christ will return after Christians (not Christ Himself) have established the kingdom on this earth.

Those who hold to postmillennialism believe that this world will become better and better—all evidence to the contrary notwithstanding—with the entire world eventually becoming "Christianized." After this happens, Christ will return. However, this is not the view of the world in the end times that Scripture presents. From the book of Revelation, it is easy to see that the world will be a terrible place during that future time. Also, in 2 Timothy 3:1-7 Paul describes the last days as “terrible times.”


Those who hold to postmillenialism use a non-literal method of interpreting unfulfilled prophecy, assigning their own meanings to words. The problem with this is that when you start assigning meanings to words other than their normal meaning, a person can decide that a word, phrase, or sentence means anything they want it to mean. All objectivity concerning the meaning of words is lost. When words lose their meaning, communication ceases. However, this is not how God has intended for language and communication to be. God communicates to us through His written word, with objective meanings to words so that ideas and thoughts can be communicated.


A normal, literal interpretation of Scripture rejects postmillennialism and holds to a normal interpretation of all Scripture, including unfulfilled prophecy. Concerning the interpretation of prophecy, we have hundreds of examples from Scripture of prophecies being fulfilled. Take for example the prophecies concerning Christ in the Old Testament. Those prophecies were fulfilled literally. Consider the virgin birth of Christ (Isaiah 7:14; Matthew 1:23). Again, consider His death for our sins (Isaiah 53:4-9; 1 Peter 2:24). These were fulfilled literally. This is reason enough to assume that God will continue in the future to literally fulfill His Word, His prophecies of future events.


Dominionism is the belief that Christ will return after the Church has Christianized society, through a Christian force called "Joel's Army"


Postmillennialism and Dominionism are becoming hard to distinguish apart these days. They are fusing into one system of belief, especially popular in the Third Wave revival. It is the belief that Christ will return after the Church has Christianized society, through a Christian force called "Joel's Army". He will not rapture His elect because they will be victorious here on earth. Jesus Christ does not come back bodily but returns "in His Church" and reigns on earth through His Church spiritually. Postmillennialism denies that Christ returns bodily to rule and judge.

C. Peter Wagner

The expression Third Wave was coined by Christian theologian C. Peter Wagner around 1980 to describe what followers believe to be the recent historical work of the Holy Spirit. It is part of a larger movement known as the Neocharismatic movement. The "Third Wave" involves those Christians who have received Pentecostal-like experiences, however Third Wavers usually claim no close association with either the Pentecostal or Charismatic movements.

In C. Peter Wagner's book that is titled: DOMINION! How Kingdom Action Can Change the World, he states that he is a Partial Preterist and strong advocate of Dominion Theology. Wagner said his eschatological views became clarified when he read Victorious Eschatology by Harold Eberle and Martin Trench. He feels that Victorious eschatology fits dominion theology like a hand in a glove. Eberle and Trench say, "Before Jesus returns, the Church will rise in glory, unity, and maturity. The Kingdom of God will grow and advance until it fills the Earth."

Many Christians, including more conservative Pentecostals, have rejected the Third Wave movement as being unbiblical, since some believe it to include expressions of the Latter Rain Movement, Manifest Sons of God teaching and Kingdom Now theology, while many within the Third Wave movement also reject these doctrines.

The teaching that in the last days, a "new breed" of Christians will arise - the "Manifest Sons of God" - who will have supernatural spiritual power and be instrumental in subduing the earth. This movement is also referred to as "Joel's Army."

It is claimed that these people will be perfected into their "glorified bodies" prior to Christ's return. That perfection will allow them to subdue the earth for Jesus. Proponents of this doctrine also claim Christians, having a "divine nature," become "gods." They say Christ came into us as a "seed" and grows into a "prophet." Thus Christ does not physically return, but returns within us. The rapture, according to this doctrine, will be of the wicked - not of believers.

This teaching is part of what is known as 'dominion theology' which teaches that an elite army of 'overcomers' will either destroy or subdue all the enemies of Christ until they eventually gain power and authority throughout the world. The government of the nations will be upon their shoulders and when all the secular authorities, governments, princes and kings have finally submitted to them, Christ will return and they will present the kingdom to him.

Source: Clifford Hill, "Prophecy Today," Vol. 7, No. 1 Eng., as cited in "Joel's Army," 1991, Jewel van der Merwe, Discernment Min.

Many critics argue that the third wave differs from the charismatic movement only in terminology, not in either theology or practice, so to distinguish between the two is to make a distinction without a difference. For example, Dr. John MacArthur makes this argument in his book Charismatic Chaos. Because of its similarity to the charismatic movement, many criticisms of the charismatic movement also apply to the Third Wave movement.

Although clearly a generalization that is not true of everyone associated with each of these three waves, it is fair to speak of 3 subtly different theologies of their claims of experience of the Spirit.

Those associated with the First Wave will generally preach the "baptism with the Holy Spirit" as a separate experience to conversion which must be accompanied by speaking in tongues in order to be genuine.

Those associated with the Second Wave will still tend to speak of a second experience of the Spirit - a baptism or filling of the Spirit, although they will often more readily state that all Christians in some sense have the Spirit. They will also usually state that tongues "usually" accompanies this experience.

Those associated with the third wave will tend to identify "baptism with the Spirit" with conversion, and not refer to a second crisis-like experience of receiving the Spirit. They would prefer to emphasize the ongoing nature of the experience of the Spirit. Tongues may not be emphasized at all, and will usually not feature in public meetings. Some third wave leaders would themselves not speak in tongues.

One thing is clear about all this is that it is not a bit clear.


Dominion Theology is a  theological system with the common belief that society should be governed exclusively by the law of God as codified in the Bible

Dominion Theology is a grouping of theological systems with the common belief that society should be governed exclusively by the law of God as codified in the Bible, to the exclusion of secular law, a view also known as theonomy. The most prominent modern formulation of Dominion Theology is Christian Reconstructionism, founded by R. J. Rushdoony in the 1970s. Reconstructionists themselves use the word dominionism to refer to their belief that civil government should be controlled by Christians alone and conducted according to Biblical law. Social scientists have used the word "dominionism" to refer to adherence to Dominion Theology as well as to the influence in the broader Christian Right of ideas inspired by Dominion Theology. Although such influence (particularly of Reconstructionism) has been described by many authors, full adherents to Reconstructionism are few and marginalized among conservative Christians.   [Taken from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism]


Reconstructionist Christianity is a Christian movement which seeks to impose Biblical laws - especially Old Testament laws - on America

Reconstructionist Christianity is a Christian movement which seeks to impose Biblical laws - especially Old Testament laws - on America.  Christian Reconstructionism is a Calvinist movement in origin, therefore most leading Christian Reconstructionists have either been Calvinists or have been educated in the tradition of Reformed Theology. Christian Reconstructionists all generally agree that biblical law needs to be applied to modern American society, that all social ills can be traced to attempts by humanity to rule itself independent of God's will, and that Christianity should be privileged in culture and law.


Kingdom Now theology eschatology is a dominionist belief that a church-state takeover of the world is awaiting fulfillment

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Kingdom Now," "covenant people," "overcomers" or "Joel's army"

Kingdom Now theology is a theological belief within the Charismatic movement of Protestant Christianity, mainly in the United States.

Kingdom Now proponents believe that God lost control over the world to Satan when Adam and Eve sinned. Since then, the theology goes, God has been trying to reestablish control over the world by seeking a special group of believers. Through these people — known as "covenant people," "overcomers" or "Joel's army," depending on the source — social institutions (including governments and laws) would be brought under God's authority. These "covenant people" or "overcomers" are "little gods" — God's "extension" in the world to regain authority from the devil. The church, under the leadership of "restored" apostles and prophets, therefore must take over the world and put down all opposition to it before Christ can return. Anyone who rebels against the church, along with other "evildoers," must convert or be punished.

One of the most controversial tenets of the theology is the belief that secular or non-Christian society will never succeed, since, according to their beliefs, the only valid legislation, social theory, spiritual beliefs, and economic theory are those derived from the Bible. Hence, Kingdom Now opposes a separation of church and state.

Kingdom Now theology has some beliefs in common with the Latter Rain Movement, such as a belief in restored apostles and prophets. It also has a great deal in common with Dominion theology which is the belief that this world can be conquered for Christ by the temporal political, military, and religious powers of a present day Christian superpower. Its eschatology is a dominionist belief that a church-state takeover of the world is awaiting fulfillment. Typically the belief comes on the scene whenever a superpower comes to the apex of international wealth and power. Some evangelicals call the belief "deceitfulness of riches". Those on the political left are inclined to call it "jingoism". This optimistic, (some call it high minded), spirit moves across from the state or a booming merchant world to affect the church. It brings with it a new optimistic ecclesiastical mindset for world takeover. This [1] historical overview outlines Dominion Theology as it was seen and demonstrated in the Edwardian era of the British Empire at the dawning of the 20th century.

This theology is preached by a small minority within the Charismatic movement. However, some of the theology's most strident critics are also from within the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements.

Some have claimed that the non-Charismatic movement known as Reconstructionism holds similar beliefs and that the two movements largely complement one another. There are, however, some major differences. Doctrines such as theonomy (the continued validity of the Old Testament) and Calvinism (particularly predestination and the sovereignty of God) are central to Reconstructionist doctrine. Additionally, Reconstructionists nearly always teach cessationism, in opposition to the defining characteristics of the Charismatic movement. Reconstructionists strongly disagree with many of the doctrines of "Kingdom Now" theology and related theologies such as the Latter Rain Movement and typically consider these movements to be heretical, and are usually very critical of the charismatic movement.

As I said earlier, the end-time events include the coming of the antichrist, the 7 year tribulation, the Second Coming, and Christ ruling during the 1000 years of peace...if you are a Premillennialist.  But if you are a Preterist or Historist you don't believe in any of these prophesied events.

Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them.

2Timothy 3:13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their
own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;

4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.




Kenneth Uptegrove


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 Joel's Army rises


Lou Engle calls for civil war in church, 
more militancy as Joel’s Army rises

On March 8th 2008, at Mike Bickle of IHOP’s ‘Passion For Jesus Conference’, as broadcast on GOD TV, I watched Lou Engle of ‘The Call’ fame speak.

As he spoke, Lou Engle constantly rocked back and forth, as apparently he almost always does now when preaching, under what he would claim to be the anointing of the Holy Spirit. His spiritual manifestations are supposed to be a sign that he speaks under the unction of the Holy Spirit and when the jerks, grunts, twitches and miscellaneous experiences and feelings get stronger, they supposedly bear witness to him and the audience that what he says is true and prophetic and the ‘glory’ and ‘anointing’ of the Lord is there testifying to it. Thus manifestations really do lead many in the church of today instead of the Word of God or the real Spirit of God and not the imposter.

However, it was clearly not  the Holy Spirit that moved Lou Engle and who he prophesied by – because of what Engle said - which was unbiblical heresy, and certainly not spoken under the power and unction of the Holy Spirit, however much he manifested, as the Holy Spirit can only testify to truth.

I was quite surprised with how blatant these Kansas City Prophets and their associated mouthpieces are now getting. For several years they have tried to hide what they truly believe by double speak or outright lies – especially Mike Bickle- and now, at this conference, it seemed it was time to come right out with it and declare what they really think. Or perhaps they forgot they were live on TV, I don’t know. Either which way, nobody murmured at the conference – even at the horrendous bits – and GOD TV kept broadcasting it.

In the session I watched, Lou Engle spoke on the end times and the end times generation. Fair enough you may say, because it is the end times. Right, I agree on this point, I do think these really are the Last Days and many alive now are part of the end times generation. But from here Lou Engle and I and every other Bible-loving Christian must part company, as Lou Engle parts company with scripture and starts preaching and prophesying Latter Day Rain heresies – which of course the Kansas City Prophets are fully steeped in.

For all those that don’t yet know it, Todd Bentley is inextricably part of this movement with personal mentoring by prophet Bob Jones, currently the most exalted of the Kansas City Prophets – and wasn’t even K C prophet Paul Cain wheeled out the other night at a Lakeland rally to add his seal of approval? 

Paul Cain declared Todd Bentley to be Elijah (not another Elijah – I thought William Branham and Bob Jones and even Paul Cain were supposed to be Elijah? ‘I’m Spartacus, no, I’m Spartacus, no, I’m Spartacus! ), and Paul Cain said that Todd Bentley’s revival was the start of the fulfillment of his own long-touted Joel’s Army prophecies of stadiums filled etc (if only that were all that there was to these prophecies though! – more on that later).

Todd Bentley’s healing ‘revival’ in Florida is a manufactured Latter Rain revival which is more about extolling and elevating the apostolic-prophetic movement under the headship of their ‘pope’ C Peter Wagner, and its second in command Chuck Pierce, than is it about anything else – and extending their dominion - whether it is done in Jesus’ name or not.

The Latter Rain doctrines and the Bible’s differ on many key points. People can Google the finer details on Latter Rain, I do not want to unnecessarily repeat other articles, but as some people, I know, will not research, or do not have the time to research (although I suggest they find the time as this is critical), very briefly, the main points are these – (there is another brief overview here)

The church has alway traditionally believed in the literal return of Jesus Christ, coming in the clouds where every eye will see Him, after the world has been in great travail with many earthquakes and natural disasters and famine (which are but the birthpangs for the end, says Jesus), and after the great tribulation (persecution) period after the antichrist has been revealed and persecutes and kills the saints, and after many false christs and workers of signs and wonders have been revealed, and worldwide apostasy and sin has spread to epidemic proportions and there is little love on the earth. The Bible teaches that at the end, Christ returns and the church gets gathered and caught up to Him in the air in ‘the rapture’. Nobody can miss Christ’s return as it will be that  obvious – as lightning flashes from the east - promises Jesus, unmistakable he emphasis. Do not be deceived otherwise, he emphasizes.

However, extreme Latter Rain heretics (and there are various spins on it) believe and falsely prophecy that Jesus Christ appears within the body of believers – that is within them.  And so they literally become Jesus, a corporate Christ, the Manchild. Rather than the body being in Him, the body become Him – the Manifested Sons of God doctrine – which of course is extremely blasphemous. This is more than becoming like   Jesus in His character or works. This is more than having His Holy Spirit dwelling within them. It is them, fallen human beings, literally becoming divine and perfect and gods.

The ‘glory’ they speak of coming to the Bride is this – the perfection of believers who become literally as gods. All under the authority of the new apostles of course, who somehow are more godlike than the other god-men and must be submitted to without question.

“There is a ministry … the ministry of perfection – the Melchizedek Priesthood . . . your children will be moving into the ministries of Perfection . . . coming into that Divine Nature of Jesus Christ . . . they themselves will be that generation that’s raised up to put death itself underneath their feet . . . because the Lord Jesus is worthy to be lifted up by a church that has reached the full maturity of the GOD-MAN!” (Bob Jones)

“The glory is shared, so the CLOUD which represents that glory IS SHARED. Each elect son becomes a manifestation of the glory – of the CLOUD – of the shekinah! Each son becomes the expression and revelation of the Person of Deity. There is still only one Person of God, but He shall eternally indwell a many-membered body of like ones unto Himself, the extension and projection of His own Being. — He says, “I will dwell IN THEM, and walk IN THEM… and ye shall be My sons and daughters.” (II Cor. 6:16-18). What, then, are those clouds with which, and in which, the Christ comes again? Why, bless your heart, WE ARE!”  (Preston Eby)

“His Son was a ALPHA SON, your children are the OMEGA sons and daughters.” (Bob Jones) -

How blasphemous, Christ is the alpha and omega, the beginning and the end!

“In the manifestation of the Sons of God…. the overcomers will become perfected and step into immortality in order to establish the Kingdom of God on earth.” (George Warnock)

These God-men, they prophesy will have extraordinary powers. You hear all the new prophets talking about it and referring to it, though you many not have twigged this is what they meant, what it refers to or where it comes from – eg the walking through walls and levitating. They will be the Joel’s Army Paul Cain prophesies. The apostles, of course, are way at the top of the pecking order - and will [if given the chance] demand unquestioning obedience as generals of the army as they thump their iron rod across the globe.

“Not only will they not have diseases, they will also not die. They will have the kind of imperishable bodies that are talked about in the 15th chapter of Corinthians … this army is invincible. If you have intimacy with God, they can’t kill you.” (Paul Cain)

There is nothing in the Bible that promises believers immortality this side of death. Death will be put under Christ’s feet but right at the very end of the ages, when there will be a new heaven and a new earth too. The only ones who will not see death are those still alive at the time of the rapture, who will somehow be transformed ‘in the twinkling of an eye’ and become clothed with the imperishable. Todd Bentley has apparently mentioned recently at Lakeland there is no need for believers to age and die this side of death. There is nothing in the Bible that promises believers immortality and nothing that promises invincibility either, however much faith the believer may have, however intimate they are with God.

It is nonsense that ‘If you have intimacy with God, they can’t kill you’   for the prophet Daniel, the apostle John and Paul, and Jesus, says repeatedly that the saints will be killed for their faith, especially during the Great Tribulation. The saints did not love their lives more than they loved God and sacrificed them at the altar. (Another false teaching spread by ‘prophet’ Dimitri Duduman is that if you are holy enough you’ll likewise avoid persecution.) Indeed, the Bible says that the antichrist will be given power to make war against the saints and to overcome them … and the great dragon, Satan, will be unleashed and allowed to in a new terrible and savage way to make war on the true church, and to win (from an earthly perspective).

Far from the true remnant church being invincible triumphant overcomers in the Last Days, many will be beheaded, put to the sword, or otherwise be killed. They do overcome spiritually   by their word and their testimony – but they are still mortal martyrs that still die a physical death. The only ones that will be invincible and untouchable in the Last Days will be the antichrist’s   forces – not God’s. Paul Cain yet again betray the true spiritual nature and source of his movement by speaking as he has.

The Latter Rain new apostolic perfect invincible church, they say, shall have dominion over the earth and rule the nations with a rod of iron through the new apostles – hence the dominionists like C Peter Wagner. The new apostles do not just want to rule the church, they want to rule the world.  And they have already set many things in place in the world of finance, media and government to this end – and set things up so they have information on many denomination’s church members by their ‘harmless’ collection of data for statistical purposes. So they know where the church members live to come and get you if you do not submit – to them and not God, that is.

“As the rod of His strength goes out of Zion, He’ll change legislation. He’ll chase the devil off the face of God’s earth, and God’s people together, doing the will of God, will bring about God’s purposes and God’s reign. “ (Ern Baxter)

The new end time apostles rule the Church through independent churches, unaffiliated with the ‘corrupt denominations’ as per William Branham’s teaching that all denominations are corrupt. The denominational churches they declare will eventually all disband to join in with this new church/new movement, under the new apostle’s leadership.

Ever wondered where the ecumenical movement is going? The antichrist is Caesar, the leader of the revived ’Rome’.  This new apostolic church, of course, with the false prophet mouthpiece and its signs and wonders is joined at the hip with Rome (beast one and beast two) – (ever wondered why so many of the new prophets are in the Roman Catholic illuminati Knights of Malta?), becomes the one world religion as so many have been apparently converted to the Latter Rain ’Christ’ and the new apostle’s religion in the revival – most won by signs and wonders they do not test done under the power of the antichrist, the others won over or threatened by persuasive force. It is essential to them for the church to be unified as one, under their apostles, or they think their corporate Christ cannot be fully incarnated (manifested) in the Church and give his power to conquer the whole world. So there will be more than pressure applied on those individuals and churches who will not join in with the apostles – but more on that later.

They claim there will be a worldwide revival with amazing healings, signs and wonders and miracles by elite overcomers – winning an end-time harvest of billions of souls, where the majority of the world, they say will be won to Christ and the kingdom would be established or ready to be received by Christ. It does not seem to matter whether converts or won or forced.

“It will be said of the apostles soon to be anointed that they have turned an upside down world right side up. Nations will tremble at the mention of their name.” (Rick Joyner, said in 1988, not that long before the new apostles under C Peter Wagner were ‘anointed’)

The army – Joel’s Army – won’t just love people into the kingdom – they will be militant, thinking themselves the enforcers of God’s will on earth, ruling with their rod of iron. Spiritual warfare becomes literal, the church having become accustomed and softened to the militaristic and Dominionist talk through spiritual warfare and worship songs. They will say that as all those that oppose them are opposing God (as they as perfect god-men are God), and are permanently lost because of then, then killing them is no big deal anyway, or perhaps it will be viewed as God executing his ‘final’ judgment on unbelievers, as they are God remember. I am not making this up – this comes from their own writings.

“They won’t be able to kill this army.” (Jack Deere)

“Those in this army will have the kind of anointing … this kind of power … anyone who wants to harm them must die.” 

(John Wimber – yeah, I was shocked when I read ‘pussy-cat’ Wimber said this.

As speaking against the new apostles is seen as harming – ‘touch not my anointed, nor do my prophets any harm’   as so frequently misquoted to keep dissenters quiet and in their place – all that oppose this Antichrist force even by speaking out ’must die’ by divine intervention – that is their   intervention. The opposers, the remnant church will be killed. Nice! Still want to follow this wonderful revival of Todd Bentley, folks?

Joel’s army in scripture far from being the Lord’s end-time army, are a devastating dark army that destroys and devours God’s people. It comes from the King of the North – that is Babylon – that is Rome. So Paul Cain yet again actually testifies with scripture what their schemes are – antichrist – for they testify that is what they are, this army. Even if we did not know it already by their blasphemies, heresies and ecumenicism, we know it here.

(Elsewhere it is prophesied that Joel’s army has feet of mixed iron and clay – again this is Daniel’s vision of the antichrist  ‘empire’ the persecutor comes from (Rome and the mixed nations, so yet again they testify against themselves!) And of course scripture does not predict an end time revival like this, it predicts an end time apostasy, a great falling away and a great persecution of the Saints. But the Latter Rain doesn’t mention the antichrist in their theology, it can’t – because they are  the antichrist (if they get their way)!

Paul Cain predicted of the stadiums being filled: “What if 120,000 get together and then the fire comes from heaven and the glory of God…” This is what the false prophet does in Revelation 13: 13,14

And he [the false prophet] doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men: And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had the power to do in the sight of the beast…

While I acknowledge there are many that are deeply sincere, I know that many of the powers that be in the new apostolic-prophetic movement are not that ignorant of scripture, and well know the things that Paul Cain and B Jones and others testify too. They know what they are doing, and they know whom they serve. But it has always been the case that an effective way to undermine an organization is by sending in plants to divert, subvert and to corrupt and to convert from within. Counter-operations if you like. M16, the CIA and the KGB do it. The communists did it the church, as did the Jesuits and other Romanists, as do even Satanists. And Satan sends in his false apostles. Why church are you so shocked? Don’t you realise you are in a war?

For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough. But I do not think I am in the least inferior to those “super-apostles.”   (2 Corinthians 11:4-5)

For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, masquerading as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. It is not surprising, then, if his servants masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.  (2 Corinthians 11:13-15)

I am reminded here of the visions I have had. Last July I saw affliction coming onto the church (and a great falling away) - ( Prophecy here) -

I then saw a large army rushing forward, dressed in black armour, their helmets were affiliated to evil, they were rushing en-masse, pressing down and swooping down – God called it an ‘army from the North’* rushing down in a semi-circular formation – like a hurricane formation – and then it came too from the East so it was like a North East wave, momentous in its force, and it looked like it was coming down upon the map of the USA (the ’seat’ of 21st century lukewarm Christianity?) over from the North and then the East. ‘The army will be like bees,’ said God, ‘with a sting in their tail’. Just like God allowed pharaoh and other ungodly kings to bring judgment upon Israel – in order that they may repent and come back to Him – so He would use ungodly forces to bring affliction upon the modern day church if   they did not repent and become hot.

This is the Joel’s Army of scripture – but it seems, if Latter Rain get their way, this dark enemy massing from Babylon is actually the church warring against the church – the harlot church against the true church.

See also this about the corrupt church’s plotting for power, and their then being empowered by the dragon with real spiritual power (albeit dark) as he comes to unleash his anger upon the world. Note also the connection to Rome -   Prophecy here

Behind closed doors they go and kings and bishops conspire against me (says God). I see a vision of them playing like military generals on a war map, pushing the pieces around with those sticks they use. They – The Vatican (?) with others – push a ‘black’ dark army against a nation, but why? ‘For their own power and wealth and gain. They care not about me. They crush the poor and steal bread from the children’s mouths.’ I then see a vision of them trying to jumpstart a car – they lack power (of a spiritual sort) but soon that false satanic spark will come and testify for them. It comes like a black star falling into the sea – it goes into the deep abyss and then arises like a monster with a roar and fury for its time is short.

Then see how the signs and wonders movement is connected to corrupt and to infiltrate the church with a poisonous gospel, and to win it to heresy from the inside - Prophecy here.  Note too the testimony to Mary and to Rome. This is where signs and wonders are going as can be seen in some of the last posts on this site on the New Mystics, contemplative meditation and stigmatisim etc.

I had a vision…. saw a pond, and I knew this pond represented the modern day Christian church (all denominations). Reeds surrounded the edge of the pond and dipped their head in the water, and this water was supposed to be the water of life, feeding the many flocks from the surrounding fields who came to quench their thirst from the heat of the day, and being an oasis of tranquillity and calm in the world.

However, I saw that the pond water was bitter – it had been poisoned, intentionally and deliberately. I saw the water was in many parts stagnant and stinking, with dead flies lying on top of yucky yellowy-green algae clumped up together. There were large parts of the pond covered with this yellowish-green gunk and in some parts I could even see the ‘whiff’ rising as steam from the water. It was acrid.

However, in some parts of the pond, dotted here and there, there still seemed to be life and movement in the water, and it was cleaner and freer water underneath the surface, but the water in these sections was still not flowing as well as it should, it was being hindered with a limited space to move in before hitting a stinking section again. It was surrounded by gunk which bordered it on all sides. I saw this gunk press in and gain ground on the clean water, and it was like an army pressing in and gaining ground, pushing and charging and pressing in like a general moves the toy piece across to gain ground on a military map, except this ‘wall’ of military might was on all sides – this ‘wall’ was attempting to squeeze the life and cleanness out of the ‘good’ ‘clean’ sections of water. I saw there was (or would be) fear and intimidation from these stinking parts of the pond.

I saw a large silver fish leap up from the water and then go back in again. It was unhealthy and gasping for breath, it could not breathe well because of the bad water. I wondered about this for some time. I remember the tactics of armies in the Roman Empire who poisoned their enemy’s water supplies - it was an effective method of ‘guerilla’ warfare, although out of order and acknowledged as barbaric. It got people without their even realising, by the time they realized it was too late. To that extent it was cunning - ’subtle’ and ’seductive’.

I wondered who would do such a thing to the church, and then I saw seductive spirits and the ‘men’ behind getting them into the modern day church. These counterfeit spirits (with seductive teachings) acted as the poison in the water, dropping in as blackness into the water and this poison spread rapidly and remarkably over the pond. The pond yielded seemingly without blinking, quite happy. Particularly, I saw the poison that had spread through the church ‘pond’ from the Toronto Blessing. This seduction had achieved in poisoning a wide spectrum of denominations with remarkable success, and made them pliable and open to delusion that few seductive teachings or spirits before had had such success with. Its success was also in going beyond a relatively limited sphere of influence within a singular denomination to affect and poison almost all denominations and groups. It (Toronto) was one of the most successful seductions of the church as it had achieved what few other ’spirits’ had, and people under it were completely blind to its bad fruit. Once avoided false shepherds had achieved credibility and were ‘gurus’ to even non charismatic or pentecostal circles. False prophets and apostles birthed from it were now accepted by the wider body as coita.

The pond thought they had life, yet the pond stank and was never in a worse state! It thought it was alive, yet what I saw was ‘living’ (in the most part) was bacteria and vermin feeding off it. I was shocked at the deliberate intent and malice at the poisoning of the pond.

I then saw what looked like Tinkerbell (the fairy from Peter Pan) hovering over the stagnant parts of the pond, calling to them and whispering lovingly. She had silver stars on her head, and she was dressed in sparkling white and had a beautiful woman’s face that then became like the Madonna (note: the Virgin Mary as Roman Catholics see her, not the Biblical Mary). She looked holy and demure and beautiful and spiritual and she carried a wand which she held over the pond and the wand twinkled with stars and magical sparkle and gold dust which fell to the pond but when it touched the water it was dark and black and poisoned it even more, yet the pond water opened up more to accept it and thought it wonderful.  She whispered sweetly and seductively and she was a marvelous sight indeed as she offered ‘magic’ and ‘mystery’. She got the eyes of the pond looking at her instead of focusing on Jesus – her name is Seduction – but some know her as ‘whore’. The pond looked at her in wonder and began to seek her only and to worship her, not even realizing they had been lead away from the true Jesus, they were so busy marveling at her and her signs.

I could see the water (the people) reach out to her with open hearts with great joy and relief – they truly saw her as a sign, and she was, yet she was not of God but from the evil one. But they thought her marvellous.

I think it is clear to most what this vision means. Let him who has ears let him have ears what the Spirit has to say to the churches. WAKE UP! YOU ARE IN GREAT DANGER AND DO NOT EVEN KNOW IT, SEE HOW YOU SLUMBER. I COULD POKE YOU IN THE RIBS AND YOU NOT EVEN STIR. You have allowed these things in, what are you going to do about it? Repent, kick them and their heinous theories out? Seek me and seek cleansing and forgiveness. Seek to rescue the flock, speak up and rid your church of these things, be ruthless. It is too late for many of your people caught in this though. They stare right ahead, they will not listen to you if you tell them to turn from these things, they are enraptured, seduced, captured, gone. Like birds caught in a snare, their wings beat but they cannot fly free. Whose fault is it?    

Then see this, I got only days before ‘revival’ hit Lakeland – Prophecy here

I saw the harvest fields (traditionally associated with the mission field) - but these fields were inside the ‘church’. They were ripe, plump and rich for harvest. I then saw a hoard of dark locusts or other insects devouring this beautiful ripe wheat, and as insects did they attacked the grain en masse – tiny nibbles here and there, but en masse it was devastating on the crop. I saw the swarm near the bottom of the grain stalks (where the grains stand), and there were many tiny holes and soon this wheat would not be able to stand as the stalks would be so weakened. I realized the dark locusts represented the false teachers and teachings within the modern day ‘church’, bringing about devastating damage because of the sheer amount of them. The darkness representing their spiritual identity – of darkness and not of the light. Note also, the devastation brought about by ‘tiny’ deviations of doctrine or ‘only little bits’ of bad behavior, what damage is done when it is done on a large enough scale, by enough insects. I had never seen it quite like this before - it was awful to watch. The swarm was allowed at the crop, and it was a terrible thing to behold.

I then thought about the Joel prophecy about locusts. The locusts in Joel represented the enemy’s army of the North – Babylon – allowed by God to attack and destroy His people and their property because of their distance from God, their sin and apostasy. ‘Babylon’ in the book of Revelation is the apostasy of the world, and spiritual adultery in a religious setting, thriving on greed and corruption and a distorted message. And indeed Babylon is eating away at the modern day church – a hoard of false teachers on the religious television channels and in the pulpits and bookstores – and Babylon has become so intermingled with her, that the church is almost at one with it (instead of being at one with Christ Jesus).

I thought about the phrase: ‘I will restore the years the locusts have eaten….’   and wondered with my heart skipping a few beats of excitement: God, does that mean you will restore the church from its present state of decay to something amazing in this generation…?  To restore it from a state of decline and apostasy and decay and corruption to something wonderful again, radiant and pure and true to the word?  I thought about this and prayed for some time: perhaps something wonderful could  happen in this generation, despite what I knew was to come in the future - but was then shown from various scriptures that were brought to my mind that this could not be so about the ‘church’ – although it could be about the smaller remnant true church (being Christ’s body) rather than the institution as such. God, of course, wanted what people think of as the ‘church’ to be right, and to repent, and to live in truth and be saved, but the truth is, I was shown, it will not be, as the majority will not repent and get right with God, or lay down their delusions or golden calfs at the alter.

I was then shown a vision of a handsome Prince Charming wearing his crown, coming to kiss the sleeping beauty church and awaken her from her evil inspired slumber. For a moment, again my heart skipped a beat – could this be Jesus coming for his bride – but almost immediately as I thought it, I was told this was not  Jesus, but another one – a pretender to his throne. Oh Lord, Lord, do not let this be so – no, God!   I groaned, devastated, and begged that it would not be so, but I knew that it must be so, for what is written. I knew this Prince Charming was the antichrist with the false prophet mouthpiece, and the church was fooled by him because she was (for the most part) asleep, and she took for herself a husband that was not her husband. If she had been awake and alert, she would not have been taken in by this Prince Charming (who looked so like Jesus I wondered for a moment if I was wrong about his true identity) coming for the church……he would kiss them awake and ‘revive’ them, with something the like of which we ain’t seen nothing of yet, real amazing signs in the heavens above etc, not just charlatanism - and it would be thought to be true revival by the ‘church’ but would be something awful in its overtones and its consequences. But this all had to happen so the scriptures would be fulfilled about a powerful end time delusion, and the state of the end time church. How it grieved me, how it grieved me. I wish it were not so….  

In the Last Days, this false Prince, this pretender, will make War against the Saints and overcome them – but don’t you know, the way to first  make war is to pretend you are on the other party’s side and undermine them or convert them to your cause. How many Trojan Horses as enticing gifts, have gone into the church, with the enemy hidden inside the horse’s belly to convert the church from the inside to apostasy? Swarms of them, I tell you, swarms of the dark army have run into the church and have ensconced themself there quite comfortably. And how succesful they have been, yet when I cry out a warning about them, I have stones flung at me by the church who insist I am not loving for saying this, and ordered to be quiet! Church, stop tolerating this dark enemy within you! If you want to practice true spiritual warfare, forget what Cindy Jacobs falsely prophecies and promises, but do something that will have almost immediate results – clean yourself up! Rid the enemy from your camp, and rid yourself of those that have intermarried with the enemy, and become a pure army, so that at least you will be able to stand, and carry on standing, and your legs will not be weakened by the locust nibbles.

What can I say to you all, then, but to be awake and alert – and watch and pray – and don’t fall asleep, for truly I say to you, we are in the days of the burning of the tenth lamp of oil (pp parable of the ten virgins). And warn the others. A prince comes soon – very soon. But it is the prince Daniel spoke of, not the Lord Jesus Christ. The Lord Jesus Christ will   return, but when he does EVERY eye will see Him etc. Do not be fooled by this prince in the meantime. Stay awake and make sure you have enough oil.

And then see how there are incredible feelings and highs associated with this antichrist move that are hard to distinguish – even for the saints. Vision here

I then felt a tremendous tangible and also spiritual sense of peace, yet it was not from the Lord Jesus, it was from the antichrist. It was a false peace but it felt so incredible and so nice and so real and true that if the Lord had not told me it was not Him I would have thought it were from Him.

Time and time again, God has prophesied who the locusts are. And time and time again the false prophet prophesies who the locusts are too. Why on earth don’t the church listen? Wake up, I tell you, wake up! For this army, they prepare for war.


So now, with that basic background info our of the way let’s look at what Lou Engle actually said at the Passion for Jesus conference that night.

He referred to the new Elijahs rising up, preparing the way as forerunners. (James Goll linked to Lou Engle on the Call’s board), wrote in Charisma Magazine   that The Call would result in “a new breed of radical, fierce, yet humble intercessors… emerging on the scene”. He points out that “in every generation God raises up forerunners… like John the Baptist…to prepare the way.” The spirit of antichrist does the same thing in the use of his forerunner, the false prophet. What are Goll et al forerunning since they have such antichrist doctrines? Are, indeed, they and their kind the false prophet spoken of on Revelation who testifies to the beast? I think so. Or let’s say, they want to be. Whether or not God lets them do it, is another thing.

Lou Engle said that Elijah was a ‘God man’, (he used those words) and what was written about him was ‘prophetic’ for the end time Elijah Company.

Lou Engle spoke on civil war in the church, and he was talking about it [whether people recognise itot now] literally, not just spiritually or metaphorically. This is the new apostolic takeover, or as Bob Jones prophesied, the civil war with the blues and greys (the people basically who have the new revelation and those in the church who oppose it).

There was a lot of elitism and Nazarite separation and baloney he also mentioned, but I am focussing here on the dangerous militaristic teachings – this man, that so many people call sweet, humble and gentle, calls the apostolic church to ungodly war. Church, for God’s sake wake up and do not tolerate this man or this antichrist movement – or its revivals. God help us all!


According to Lou Engle, the initial vision for The Call was based on a prophetic message delivered by Bob Jones—who prophesied in 1993 that 100,000 people—mostly youth—would meet in Nashville to pray and usher in a new movement of the Holy Spirit. Of couse his own movement rushed to fulfil Bob Jones prophecies, so it was self fulfilling prophecy – just like the manufactured Toronto Blessing and other things were created to make them fit Bob Jones words and Latter Rain agenda.


The connection between Dominionism, the Emergent church, and Buddhism.

In the preparing for the times we are coming into (or are accelerating into) it is important to understand what preparing spiritually really means.  Bible prophecy warns us again and again that deception and the false will define and rule the hour. 

Lora and I have been listening to Pastor Bob DeWaay show how the Emergent church and Dominionism are related and have a variation of the same eschatology.  Yet it is almost impossible to get the leaders in these deceptions (Emergent and Dominionism) to ever state clearly what their eschatology is.   Whatever they ARE they are NOT Pre-millennial (second coming before the millennium starts).  Every theology revolves around its eschatology.

Dominionist “apostles” tell us that “unity in the Spirit” means us being in unity with THEM, otherwise we are in rebellion.  Dominionist and Emergent leaders say the world is getting better and eventually their apostles will have dominion of all mankind (the one world church), then and only then will Jesus manifest Himself and rule the world.  Towards the end when 90% or so of the world is Christianized and under their dominion, then it will become necessary for them to speed up and finalize the process by elimination those who have not come into the fold … meaning you and me who must be “removed” for the sake of the whole.  Interestingly enough, the Koran and the New Agers (and the Catholic Encyclopedia) also say that.  But Dominionism originated in Romanism and that is what the Inquisition was all about … Dominionism.  It makes you wonder if they are in league somehow.

Please listen to some of the sermons and interviews by Pastor Bob DeWaay at http://www.cicministry.org .  He is very scholarly and very Evangelical … and Premillennial.  He does an excellent job of showing the history, the origins, the proponents of these deceptions, and showing you quotes from these people so there can be no question as to whether he is telling the truth.




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